Wild Courage, Micro-Actions, and Owning Your Career with Jenny Wood

In this episode of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, we’re joined by Jenny Wood, a former Google executive turned keynote speaker, author, and career development expert. Her bold moves, like chasing her now-husband off a subway and launching one of Google’s largest career programs, are just the beginning of what makes her story remarkable.

Topics Covered:

• The Subway Meet-Cute: How Jenny’s bold decision to chase down a stranger changed her life.
• Building a Career at Google: From entry-level to executive leadership and founding Own Your Career.
• The Power of Micro-Moments: How small, courageous actions like following up with a VP can lead to big results.
• Wild Courage Defined: Practical tips for navigating fear, taking risks, and owning your choices.
• The Pencil Sharpener Technique: Why sharing a rough project draft within 24 hours can transform your workplace reputation.
• Not Actually Promotable (NAP) Work: How to say no to tasks that don’t move your career forward.
• The ROCK-CHALK-TALK-WALK Framework: A powerful goal-setting tool to help you identify and achieve your dreams.

Key Takeaways:

• Courage doesn’t have to look like chasing a man off a subway—it’s often found in micro-moments.
• Bias to action is one of the most underrated workplace superpowers.
• Stop doing “NAP” work and start saying yes to tasks that make a measurable impact on your career.
• Naming your goals, saying them out loud, and taking consistent steps (no matter how small) is the key to success.

Links and Resources:

• Connect with Jenny: itsjennywood.com
• Preorder her book: Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It
• Speaking and workshops: itsjennywood.com/speaking

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Transcript

0:00

What if the secret to unlocking your wildest dreams was a mix of bold moves, big, small moments, and the courage to step out of your comfort zone. Even if that means chasing a total stranger. Off of the New York subway. Well, today's guest Jenny wood is here to prove that it is from rising through the ranks at Google to become a career mentor for thousands through her own your career program. Jenny's journey is anything but conventional. She's also a pretty rad person with some crazy hobbies that you're going to hear about in just a bit, but she's also the author of wild courage go after what you want and get it. And y'all. If you have been waiting for a sign to go after what you want, this is it. Welcome to the glass ceiling and sticky floor podcast. The show that's here to empower you to break free from limiting beliefs, ditch toxic behaviors, and unlock the infinite possibilities waiting for you. This is your time to live your best life unapologetically I'm Erica Rooney, your host and biggest cheerleader on a mission to get more women into positions of power and keep them there. Where they belong. If you're ready to shatter ceilings, crush self-doubt and build a career in life, overflowing with growth and abundance, you're in the right place. Here's the real deal. We talk about the real stuff here. Imposter syndrome, perfectionism, fear, burnout, you name it. It's raw. It's honest. And it's exactly what you need to level up. So grab a seat, pop in those ear buds and let's dive in.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 1:33

In her 18 years at Google. Today's guest grew from entry level to executive where she most recently led a large operations team that helped drive billions of dollars of revenue per year. In 2021, she started a passion project within Google called Own Your Career, which grew to one of the largest career development programs in the history of Google. She is an expert on acing a job search, building relationships, personal branding, and y'all, so much more. Her work has been featured in Harvard Business Review, Entrepreneur Inc., and Forbes, and y'all, I gotta add in these next tidbits because damn, you are about to be impressed. She's a licensed private pilot and a tapped, and y'all, she has the most incredible, meet cute story that was actually featured in New York times. So talk about wild y'all, but she's a wife, a mom and the author of the book, wild courage, go after what you want and get it. So without further ado, Jenny would, I'm so excited. You're here. Welcome to the glass ceiling and sticky floor podcast.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 2:40

Hello, hello! It is such a joy to be here today.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 2:44

Oh my gosh, I'm so pumped and the title of your book, we're going to dive in, it's Wild Courage. Go after what you want and get it. And girl, you did, on a subway, chasing after someone that you had no idea who he was, was he married or not. Spoiler alert y'all, he wasn't, thankfully, but now he is. Can you please tell me this story of chasing your husband out of the subway?

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 3:07

I most certainly can. Okay, so the story is, is bananas when you now know how it turned out, which you just shared. This stranger, this attractive stranger on the subway, uh, was standing about 20 feet away from me. I was writing at home from work one day in New York City. And, uh, I was just like really taken by this guy thinking, what's he all about? Where's he going? Where's he coming from? What does he do? And I said, I made a deal with myself. I said, if he gets off at my stop, then I will try to strike up a conversation with him. But if not, then. So, he gets off at the next stop, which is not my stop, and I said, Okay, that's the universe telling me it wasn't meant to be. The people got off the train, new people got on the train, and just as the doors were about to close, I said, No! Screw the universe! And I ran off that train. So I chased after him to catch up with him, and, uh, as he was, uh, Exiting the, the station stairs, I tapped him on the shoulder. I said, excuse me, I'm sorry to bother you. And he said, that's okay. You seem nice. And I said, well, you're, this part is so crazy because this was, I had no plan as to what was going to come out of my mouth. I just knew I didn't want to let this moment pass me by. So what came out of my mouth was you were on my subway and I thought you were cute. I can't see if you're wearing a wedding ring because you're wearing gloves. It was like a blizzard in January in New York city. I said, I can't see if you're wearing a wedding ring because you're wearing gloves, but in the event that you're not married, I'd love to give you my business card. And, and I didn't mean to be that, I mean, I guess I was being, uh, uh, assertive if, if, if you will. By taking all these steps, but I didn't mean for that to be my opening line. And of course, he's got a great sense of humor. So he kind of chuckled and, uh, I gave him my business card. We went out a week later, had, and I just knew in that moment, sitting there across from him at this dive bar on Columbus and 75th called dive 75. I just knew, I was like, this is it. This is the one. Um, and yeah, we've been very happily married 11 years with two kids.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 5:15

Oh my goodness. Well, okay. I gotta know. Have you ever done something like that before? Not just like with men, but just in general.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 5:24

Yeah, so I, it's, I definitely err on the side of more bold. One example is when I was in middle school, I was with a bunch of friends in this yogurt shop and they dared me, or I dared myself, somehow a dare was put out there to stand on a table and sing my country tis of thee. And, and I was like, okay, sure. Why not? What do I have to lose? And it's not like I didn't have any moments of embarrassment in life or feeling insecure. I mean, I have those moments all the time, but it's almost like I would test myself to see if I could build a thicker skin just by doing one little dare at a time. So just like I dared myself or somebody dared me and I accepted the dare in middle school to do that. And I did, I sang up, I stood up there and sang all the stanzas, um, until the very end. Do thee we sing, or whatever the last line is, right? Of thee I sing. Somebody, some, some, somebody sing something.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 6:23

That's it.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 6:25

right? You know, similar to how in this Flash moment on the subway. I was like, just do it. Just go for it. So it's not like I would regularly walk up to people on the street and give them my number. There was something that day that like some inertia that pushed me off of, of pushed me out of my subway seat and told me, no, Jenny, go chase after what you want in life, because if we sit back and let life add idly, Pass us by, then, you know, we'll probably not end up where we would want to, if we were choosing our own destiny one moment at a time. And that applies to life. That applies to work.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 7:00

Oh my goodness. 100%. And I, I love opening with this story because it's the red thread of your life and it's like this red thread of the book. And it's so amazing, but. You know, you were an executive at Google. We talked a little bit about that. Tell me what you're doing now and how this book came to be.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 7:16

Yeah, sure. So now I, so I was at Google for almost 18 years and I, I left, um, this past summer, so summer 2024, because I was so excited about writing a book that helped people get more of what they want in their career. To answer your question, I'm doing this full time. I am a full time writer and keynote speaker and corporate facilitator, workshop leader, um, consultant, and I'm having an absolute ball, an absolute ball. It was really, really scary. I'm the breadwinner for my family. It was really scary to leave Google, which is a substantial paycheck. As an exact and, you know, a lot of financial comfort and benefits and, you know, I've got two kids like it's, it's, it was a lot, uh, took a lot for me to walk away a lot of soul searching and thinking and frankly, reevaluating the value I place on money versus being high net freedom or. Um, just being able to put all of my time and energy into what I am currently loving. So really really hard decision, but I'm having an absolute ball And I am just working on this book promoting this book full time, which is just an absolute blast.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 8:36

Oh my gosh. Well, I've got the book. I've got an early release copy y'all. Don't be jealous. But in your book, you talk about how courage is essential to success because we are often timid on the inside and absolutely agree with all of that. But how can someone push through that fear? To take action so they can chase a man off the subway or leave a nice six figure job at google Like how do we take that action?

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 9:09

Yeah. So I think it's meeting yourself where you are, right? Not everybody. And we actually have to be really mindful of this in the book. And I was asking for feedback early on, like, is this book realistic for people? Cause most people are not going to stand on the table at the yogurt shop. And most people are not going to chase an attractive stranger off the subway, but there's a lot of big, small things people can do each day. And it's actually the name of my newsletter, perhaps you want a mentor or a sponsor and you're just too nervous to ask or you, and so the big small thing is sending them that note, right? Or, pinging them after or not even asking them to be your mentor, but after your VP at your company leads the town hall in front of 200 people. Just pinging them and being like, that was so helpful that that they gave me a lot of information about this upcoming reorg that I didn't have, for example, even that is the beginning of building a relationship that's not chasing someone off the subway. That's not like following someone into the hall after they deliver this in a presentation to the company and being like, Hey, will you mentor me? I'm Jenny, right? And yes, I have done things like that. But again, meeting, meeting yourself where you are, if you're. Perhaps we're introverted or you're more shy or you grew up in a culture that is much more reserved or just different than the American or Western corporate culture. Right? Where or even a Google culture where like a lot of Latitude is given to people at very bottom rungs who have great ideas, right? So I have a product, I have a personality and I'm a product of the culture that allows for these more bold moves, but there are all these little teeny, tiny, big, small things you can do each day, like asking for a one on one with your boss's boss, or asking your boss, if you can present for 20 minutes in their leadership meeting to expose this cool project you're working on, or the, you know, ideas I just shared. Pinging, uh, uh, a leader at your company after their presentation and saying, Hey, that was awesome. I learned a lot and leaving it at that. So what are these micro moments that you can integrate into your day that still help you, frankly, have more courage.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 11:11

I love that idea of the micro moments and big small things because I think when we're thinking about The big ask or the next big bold step. It's always like this huge monumental thing and people forget the power of just those tiny moments, like pinging the VP, which then you've got recognition there. They're talking to you. They're noticing you, even if it's just in a small gesture of gratitude. Like you

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 11:37

Oh yeah, absolutely. Can I share another one?

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 11:39

yeah, please

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 11:40

Here's another example. Occasionally, you'll be in a one on one meeting with your manager and they'll just like drop a humdinger on you, right? Like a total doozy of a project and you're overwhelmed and insecure and you feel imposter syndrome that they're even giving you this project and you have literally no clue where to start. So mild courage is going back to them and asking for them to clarify like, Hey, what are the goals here? And you know, what should I be focused on? And when do you want it by wild courage is doing something that I call a pencil sharpener. A pencil sharpener is within the first 24 hours of getting that Totally overwhelming project. You just open up a blank document on your computer. You can jot it down on pen and paper too, I suppose. And you write down a couple categories. Let's say the categories are goal of the project, self imposed deadline, first three stakeholders I want to meet with on this project, questions that I need you to answer, boss, You know, fill in one, one other category, you then rough it out rough sketch. That's why I call it a pencil sharpener. Like you're just kind of like warming up the ideas, but you're creating an artifact. You're creating something that exists on paper that did not exist before, especially in knowledge work where so much is like ephemeral ideas or theoretical discussion, right? Bosses love things that move the ball forward and a pencil sharpener, which is just a couple of bullets in these three to five categories on a share doc shows that you're moving the ball forward. And that's really all you need to get started on a big, scary, hairy project. And then share it with them. And this part is so, so, so critical, Erica, share it with them within 24 hours. The reason that is important is because then you're not stewing on the Oh my gosh, it's been seven days. We have our next one on one coming up. I don't have anything interesting to share with them. I should have had a lot of progress on this in seven days. Like no, if it's within 24 hours, the expectations are so low of what you'd be able to put together, right? Even do it like day of, right? Like the hour after you leave that meeting, just get something down and you'll realize two things. One, as you get some ideas down, You come up with other ideas and it starts to solidify in your mind what they might be looking for. And two, you're giving them something to react to your, your boss, something to react to, which is always going to a show that you are the kind of person who has a bias to action and B allows them to start the dance with you of like, Oh, we can tweak this. We can adjust this. Nah, it's not really that goal. That's more of this. You put these two stakeholders. Those are the right ones. This third one I disagree with. Let me write in on this document who the person should be. And then boom, you're off to the races. So again, so, and that is wild courage, right? Mild courage is asking for more help because it still takes courage to ask for more help or more direction from your boss. But wild courage is. Taking those next steps yourself, and even if they're wrong, even if they're rough, and that is the pencil sharpener. And that, again, is a big, small thing, right? Not too hard to do that. But people think it needs to be, like, perfect before they go back to the boss and, and have another conversation about it. Whatever that scary project is.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 14:42

That is so powerful because I'm thinking back to when I was in corporate America and how impressed I would have been if I throw out this big project for someone to do and they came back to me by end of day or the next morning. With, like you said, the most simplest of documents with just like some goals and next steps and ideas. It shows you're proactive. It shows you're taking an interest. Like, you're gonna be my go to person. So there is so much power in that one example you just gave. So much.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 15:12

I am such a nerd because when you said that, I had chills.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 15:19

I'm literally like a chief people officer. I'm like, like, and that's why so many people, they're so scared of doing these tiny little things. They don't realize what a big impact it would have. I think what's so crazy is like you said, we think it has to be perfect. We think it has to be this big whole thing, but it's that timing piece, right? Like nobody expects greatness in 12 hours,

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 15:40

everybody's impressed by bias to action and everybody's impressed by just also the confidence it shows to take a stab at some ideas, even if they're wrong. Like another thing I say is give three options, have a POV. Your boss is not some wizard behind a curtain with all the magical answers. If they're giving you this project, they don't necessarily know the best way to go about it and you can get there together. But let's say that the project was, I don't know, figure out if we're going to do vegan vanilla ice cream, strawberry ice cream, or chocolate ice cream next year as our like big product launch. They don't necessarily have a. An opinion like you, and you don't have to have the right opinion. You might say, actually, the, what I know about these three flavors working in the ice cream industry for a long time, I think we should go with vanilla and it, that in and of itself, like giving three options shows that you're able to look at things from different perspectives and having a, having a POV saying, and I recommend we go with X shows that you have the confidence, the future leadership potential, the. the, uh, I'll just

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 16:38

the gumption,

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 16:38

of anything else. Yeah, the gumption! Thank you! Right, exactly. Yeah, um, to actually have a perspective. And that's what, that's the kind of person who gets a raise, who gets a promotion, who gets the leadership. And the other thing that I'm picking up on is that, you know, when you were chief people officer, so you probably saw these opportunities all the time and you probably saw how often people don't write that half page, one page, no more than that doc by the end of the day or the next day. And that's why I got chills because it really does stand out. And that's why. It's this like tiny little move that's not chasing somebody off the subway. It's just putting down a couple of bullets that may or may not be correct and sharing them within 24 hours. But something concrete, some ink on paper, but nobody, nobody does it. Right? Nobody

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 17:27

they don't. They don't. And I love that we are on a scale of zero to chasing someone off a subway. That's our standard here, guys. Oh my gosh.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 17:37

Totally. Totally.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 17:39

in the book, you have nine labels that you turn in to powerful traits that help you fuel your courage. Now, I'm not going to have you name all nine traits here, right? When it's not pop quiz,

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 17:50

Yeah, I can. Would you like

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 17:52

bet you could, but what are some of your, your favorite ones to talk about? And like, let's dive into, I don't know, just pick one.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 18:00

Okay, I'm going to pick the spiciest one. Okay, I am going to share them all. So it's weird, selfish, shameless, nosy, obsessed, manipulative, brutal, reckless, and bossy. And they're all These powerful words, especially for women, but truly for everyone that create the bars of an invisible cage that keeps you playing small. And I want all of you listening to stop playing small and start playing smart. And these are the traits that are going to help you play smart when used in a savvy, insane way. Of course, we don't want to harm anybody, right? We don't want to, um, be cruel or abusive. These are obviously. Plays on words here, a reclaiming of language. So manipulative is, is, is becoming my favorite one to talk to. Cause it's the one I was most scared to write about. Yeah. Yeah.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 18:48

I love to say too, and just a little plug here, I've been called every single one of those things in the book, y'all, but yes, let's talk about being manipulative. Let's do it. How, how did you, Like take that and turn that into this powerful, positive thing.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 19:04

So manipulative to me is just build influence through empathy and craft lasting relationships. Because at the end of the day, we are. Always trying to influence somebody or something, whether it is. Me trying to influence a publisher to give me a big book deal, or me trying to influence my son Ari to get the hell out of the house in the morning. And I give him just enough choice. Do you want to wear the red shirt or the blue shirt to make him feel like he has agency while not derailing my agenda to be at school in seven minutes. So I think the first part is just acknowledging that it is okay to want to influence a situation. We're doing it right now. We're not speaking just to like massage each other's eardrums. We are speaking with the intention to influence your audience to help them get better. And sometimes it's for an altruistic purpose. You purely want to help somebody else sometimes. And like, it is okay if our purpose is for you to sell More of your book or to get people to share the episode and get other people excited about these ideas and gain more monthly listeners, and it's okay if I also have a goal of helping millions of people through my book and having your listeners, all of you listening right now, go out and buy my book, which I encourage you to do. I think it's first just acknowledging that it is okay to want to influence. And then we can start to unpack all the different ways you can. Wield that influence at work.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 20:32

Hmm. I love that. And you also talk about trait traps. So tell me what is a trait trap?

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 20:38

Ah, okay. Great question. So trait traps are when you take the trait too far. So for example, obsessed is about push, perform, It's not about grinding yourself into a pulp and overworking yourself till you're numb, right? Um, it's about a good strong work ethic. It's not about taking it too far that you make yourself sick In uh in a manipulative since we were just talking about that. It's about influencing in the right way And you know one trait trap in there for example is is Build relationships, but know when you've maybe gone a little bit too far. So here's an example where that would fall into healthy manipulation. Um, and this is when I really wanted this. I'll say who it is. Vanessa Van Edwards is this all star author. Um, super well known and I just was so admired her and I was going to Austin for an, for a work related event and I emailed her and I said, Hey, Vanessa, I'm going to be in Austin. I'd love to take you out to coffee since you know, I'm working on my first book, etc. And she said, Okay. Great. Um, the only thing is I've got some travel dates that like are just over the time you're going to be there. Here's when I leave. Here's when I come back. And I saw that she was going to be leaving just, she was going to be leaving Austin just before I arrived. So I said, Hey, what time, um, I guess she'd already shared her flight information. And I said, Oh, that is perfect. I get in just a couple hours before you. We're probably going to be at the airport at the same time. Why don't we just get coffee at the airport when you're about to leave? And I've just landed. She's like, that's perfect. Sounds great. So we had this awesome coffee, you know, became friends, et cetera. But Erica, here's the thing. I actually was not supposed to land a couple hours before her. I was supposed to land a couple hours after her. So I quickly checked the Delta website for 60 bucks. I got myself on a new flight that landed earlier and. Got me there to make my story true. So, you know, some might say liar, liar, pants on fire, but in this case, a little white lie, a little bit of healthy manipulation to influence the situation without making it awkward or over the top or telling her how the sausage was made and saying like, well, I land later, but I could use my flight. In which case you'd be like, Oh, don't do that. That's absurd. And I'd look a little bit, I think, extra right. And, and so I think just being smart about how you influence or how you Manipulate these situations is also important. And so the trick trap here would be just being way over the top or exposing every single thing that's going on in your head, um, to the person who is the recipient of your thoughtful manipulation.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 23:09

love some thoughtful manipulation, and I have done that, I could not even tell you how many times. I love the word manipulation with that, I like to think of it more like orchestrating my future, something like that, you know? Yeah!

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 23:24

Someone else had another great name for this that is escaping me right now, but if we were to call it strategic or, um, you know, planning ahead, People wouldn't pay nearly as much attention about it. And I like to do things differently and I like to be a little bit out there. And so I'm calling it manipulation and we'll see if I get canceled.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 23:46

culture is real. Oh my gosh. Okay, Jenny, on this podcast we talk a lot about the sticky floors, which are the limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors that keep you stuck. And I saw so many connections. In the work that you do, right? We're just kind of manipulating our language to talk about a little bit of the same things. When you hear that, you know, sticky floors and these trait traps and things like that, what was one of those that you struggled with the most? And then how did you get over that?

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 24:17

Easy, easy. So this is again, something that can happen to anybody, but I think women can be particularly, um, prone to falling into this. And this is what I call nap work and nap work is NAP stands for not actually promotable work. And I got to credit my mom. We were sitting together at the kitchen table and she came up with this acronym, which I totally love. So not actually promotable work. So what is that? This is um, taking notes in the meeting always. This is planning the offsite. Oh, our leaders in town. Can you plan the dinner and like the snacks and can you organize the share drive or come in early to decorate for the holiday party? That is not actually promotable work. Yes, it is. Important work for teams to function. And it's great to build culture, you know, through these activities. But if you're always doing it, then you are really doing a disservice to yourself when the stuff that you should be doing more of is. The stuff that's pr, that's promotable. So these are, this is like the 2025 marketing plan that is the key priority for the head of your company or the thing that's most important to your boss on the strategy for that ice cream project that we talked about before, or anything else that really matters for your career or matters for the company that you can hang your hat on and write a really solid bullet point in your annual review. With numbers and metrics that you helped move. And it's hard to say no to these things, right? Like it's hard to, for someone to say to you, Hey, can you hop on a call? And can we talk about the logistics for X, Y, Z thing? And so owning that no and saying, sorry, heads down now on my H2 marketing project is something that takes practice, but really worthwhile because if you're. Always getting stuck in the nap work. You're really not putting yourself in a position to continue to move up in your career. And it's not like you should never do it. I think maybe 15 percent nap work is probably fine, but if you find yourself getting tapped over and over and over again, it takes some wild courage to push back and say, I had a great time planning the company offsite last year, and I'm so excited to give somebody else an opportunity to do it.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 26:30

Yes. And I can attest to that as someone in HR, which is often the dumping ground for a lot of nap work. You really do have to be smart in how much of that you take on. And I do think as women, we are so often other focused and we don't want to put others out that we just take it on ourselves, but you're right. Like start to list that out. If you can't put her a number or a metric behind how that moved the business forward, you've got to limit that.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 26:55

Yeah. And in general, I would broaden this up to saying yes to the big and no to the small right? The big stuff is that h2 project on strategy or the ice cream, you know, metric you want to move and the small is the taking notes, the planning the offsite and even within HR, right? Because I, I, I was never the. The program I led at Google was completely fine as a passion project. I was actually never in any people operations role. But I have enough experience working with those folks to know that even within there, there is promotable work and non promotable work. So for example, you know, if you're doing something in the HR capacity, at least. Find a metric you can tie it to. If your company has an annual satisfaction survey and career development is always in the 40 percent range or whatever it is, like at least I'm doing this thing with the goal to move this from 40 percent satisfaction to 47 percent satisfaction, as opposed to always taking notes for the meeting, which there's no metric tied to that. It's just helping out and somebody else can help out next time if you've done it too much.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 27:48

absolutely. And I will say here too, I think it's helpful to track that stuff because when you sit there and you tell your old pale, stale white male boss, like, Hey, I'm the one always taking the notes. They're going to be like, no, you're not. I asked little Bobby to do it. And you're like, but if you have the metrics, you can put that in a performance review. I took, you know, all of the notes on the strategic HR meetings for 87 percent of the meetings in 2024. Now it's not it's it's still nap work, right? But when you can document it and put it in that review You're also going to bring that to light where you're spending your time So I still think you can find those metrics and make them Sound impressive for something that's not that impressive, like note taking. And then maybe you'll get your boss to think a little differently in 2025.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 28:36

I love it. I love it.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 28:38

All right, Jenny, can you tell me about the ROC, CHOC, TOC, and WOC formula? What is, what is it, and like, how can we use it?

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 28:48

Yeah, for sure. So this is goal setting in a nutshell, essentially, and rock is your big thing you want to accomplish and have wild courage when you set your rock, right? Not like, oh, I want to make some music and put it on Spotify, right? Like, no, I want to have, you know, Um, this let's, let's just like aim for the stars. I want to have a Grammy award winning album by 2029. Right? Okay. So that's your big rock and I call it a rock because if you think about filling the jar of your life, the rocks are the things that take up the most space or should take up the most space the pebbles. Are going to then fill up the next amount of space. And then the sand is like little bitty things, but your rocks are the big ones, those big things that you kind of want to like continue to push. And then chalk is write it down. So I oftentimes on my monitor right in front of me here have a goal and that goal will be, you know, Grammy award winning album by 2029 or whatever it is. So I can keep reminding myself of what that big rock is and be specific there, right? That's when you can say, you know, I want to. Um, to get there, you know, I got to, I got to put some pebbles in there as well and some sand in there as well. So I want to record my first three practice tracks by end of June. And I want to reach out to seven producers by the end of August. Right. So that's where you can get a little bit more granular in these micro goals. Cause we're also talking about like, what are these baby steps you can take if you're not going to chase someone off the subway. Um, and then, so that's rock is, what is your goal? chalk, chalk is writing down.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 30:15

What are we talking

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 30:16

We're talking about, you're just saying it out loud. So sometimes like I am not a manifested into the world kind of person, but I am a, we believe what we say kind of person. And the more we say these words out loud, the more we feel comfortable having that goal versus feel foolish having that goal. For example, in 2006, when I wanted to work for Google, I was living with my parents at the time and I walked around the house, like this like nutty mantra. I'm going to work for Google. I'm going to work for Google. I'm going to work for Google. And Google is like the hottest thing then with the lava lamps and the beanbag chairs and all these like sizzling news segments, you know, promoting this as the best company to work for ever. And I was like, I'm going to work at Google. So I was talking this goal out loud so that I wouldn't shy away from it and just have it kind of stew around in my brain and my heart and my stomach, but never, we're going to work for Google. Really believe that it could happen by saying it out loud. You have people who can keep you accountable. And frankly, more importantly, you keep yourself accountable. And then finally walk is you got to walk the walk. You got to, you got to reach out to those seven producers. You got to record those three tracks. You've got to send that resume to Google. You got to jump off the subway train. And that is rock, chalk, talk, walk goal setting in a nutshell.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 31:27

I love that. My favorite step in all of that is the talk portion because

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 31:31

Tell me why.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 31:33

found that that is what makes me do the thing. And I'll give you an example because I can dream it all day. I can write it in my planners and I can journal about it, but if I am really struggling with my sticky floors of worrying about what other people think or perfectionism or this, that, and the other. If I don't tell somebody else in my circle that I know will hold me accountable, that dream will eventually wither and die. Like I just know myself. And so for me talking about it, and when I wanted to start this podcast, I didn't do it for a very long time and I know myself. So I did the thing to set it in motion, right? I did the thing I couldn't take back. And I sent an email to just 10 women who I knew would support me. And boom! It was out there, it had to be done. Mmm.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 32:24

I love it. That is so, so, so great. And then as you say it out loud, you start to believe it, right? Or you get other ideas, like it becomes an iterative process. Talking it is almost like your own little pencil sharpener, right? Where You put the idea out there and other people might say, Oh, well, what about this woman? Or you'd be awesome, Erica, or you were born for this. And then that like builds the confidence and reduces the imposter syndrome.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 32:46

I love all of that. Jenny, if you could go back in time to The young Jenny walking around her parents house mumbling, I'm going to work for Google. I'm going to work for Google, you know, and you, you think about all the things you've learned in your time and your experience. What piece of advice would you give that Jenny today?

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 33:05

Chill the fuck out.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 33:10

Oh, there's a round of applause for that one because I need to get on that bandwagon.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 33:16

And like other people have told me this too. I remember sitting on the couch with Kim Scott in her house, and she's just been like an angel helping me. Kim Scott, who wrote Radical Candor, she's just been an angel on this book project, and a really wonderful mentor. And we were talking, This point, like, okay, what else should I be doing on the book launch? And she's like, uh, relax. And I was like, okay, yeah, points taken.

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 33:38

Well, that actually vibes very much with who she is. And I'll give her a shameless plug here. She was on this podcast about a year ago. So head back and listen to the Kim Scott episode, y'all. Um, oh my gosh, she's amazing. Jenny, if people want to work with you. Where can they find you? I'll tell everybody. We're going to link the book for the pre orders in the show notes. First of all, when does the book launch? Let's, let's start with that.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 34:05

Yeah. March 25th. So

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 34:07

Okay. March 25th coming for us. I love it where I'm going to link the pre orders, but where can people find you?

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 34:13

Yeah. Uh, to bring me into your organization for a keynote or any kind of speaking engagement, fireside chat or workshop, it's, it's Jennywood. com slash speaking,

squadcaster-91ci_1_12-09-2024_131027: 34:23

I love it. Jenny, this was so fun. Thank you so much. And best of luck on the book launch and everything else. It's going to be amazing.

jenny-wood_1_12-09-2024_111027: 34:31

Thank you so much. What a fun conversation to have today and hope all of you listening got something out of it and thank you for giving us an opportunity to contribute to your goals.

34:39

Jenny just gave us the blueprint for breaking through. From her signature pencil sharpener technique that can change how you show up at work to reframing manipulative. As building influence with empathy, this conversation was packed with just game changing insights. Y'all. Jennie story reminds us all the courage. Isn't about waiting for the perfect moment. No, no, no. It's about making the move that scares you. And showing up again and again, and again, her book wild courage hits the shelves on March 25th, 2025, but you can pre-order it now. And. But you can pre-order it now. And you should. If you're ready to stop playing small and start building a life you love, this is your permission slip until next time y'all keep chasing those dreams. Even if it means jumping off the train. Thanks for tuning in to the glass ceiling and sticky floor podcast. If this episode lit a fire under you, go ahead and hit that five star review. It's how this message lands in the hands of the women that need to hear it. Most, and don't stop now, head to Amazon order the book, glass ceilings, and sticky floors. Follow me on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, antique talk for daily doses of inspiration and all the tools you need to keep smashing those ceilings.