Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors: Shatter Limiting Beliefs - Redefine Success - Chase Big Dreams

Breaking Vases and Finding the Courage to Redefine Your Life with Dima Ghawi

• Erica Rooney

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In this powerful episode of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, we’re joined by Dima Ghawi—author, speaker, and courageous leader—who shares her extraordinary journey of breaking free from the limitations of her culture, family, and expectations. Topics include:

  • Cultural Constraints: Growing up in a Middle Eastern community with strict expectations of obedience and perfection.
  • The Vase Analogy: How cultural pressures to remain “perfect” shaped her early life—and how she shattered them.
  • Depression as a Catalyst: How hitting rock bottom became the turning point for questioning the norms that held her back.
  • Making the Hard Choices: The courage to escape an oppressive situation and rebuild her life from scratch.
  • Unstoppable Courage: Steps to overcome fear, invest in yourself, and create a life of purpose.
  • Practical Advice: The importance of grieving, finding light through knowledge, and surrounding yourself with the right people.

Dima’s story is raw, real, and full of lessons for anyone who feels stuck or bound by expectations. Her memoir, Breaking Vases, is a must-read for anyone ready to shatter limitations and thrive.

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All right. Y'all. Have you ever felt trapped by the expectations of your culture, your family, or maybe even those expectations you put on yourself? Today's guest DEMA. Gallwey knows exactly what that feels like, and she knows how to break free. Raised in the middle east DEMA was taught from a young age to be quiet, to be subservient and to follow a life path that was predetermined by her family and her culture. But DEMA found the courage to shatter those limitations, escape, a dangerous situation and create a life she never imagined was possible. She's now a celebrated author, keynote speaker and advocate for unstoppable courage. And y'all know, I love to talk about courage. Her story is going to leave. You inspired to step off your own predetermined path, whatever that is, and create the life you deserve. You were listening to the glass ceiling and sticky floor podcast. The show that's here to empower you to break free from limiting beliefs, ditch those toxic behaviors and unlock the infinite possibilities waiting for you. This is your time to live your best life. Unapologetically I'm Erica Rooney, your host and biggest cheerleader on a mission to get more women into positions of power and keep them there where they belong. If you're ready to shatter ceilings, crush self-doubt and build a career and life overflowing with growth and abundance. You're in the right place. Here's the deal. We talk about the real stuff here. Imposter syndrome, perfectionism, fear, burnout, you name it. It's raw. It's real. It's honest. And it's exactly what you need to level up. So grab a seat, pop in those ear buds and let's dive in.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Today's guest has come from a part of the world where she was taught at an early age to be a follower, to be quiet, to be subservient. She was fiercely constrained by the Middle Eastern culture of the community and family expectations that molded her To be absent of identity. Dima Gawi is an author, keynote speaker, and a courageous leader that has stepped off the predetermined path when she realized she had a choice, but that choice would lead her down a dangerous path that would require more courage than ever before. Dima, welcome to the Glass Ceiling and Sticky Floor Podcast. I'm so excited you're here. How are you today?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

I'm doing great, Erica. I'm excited to be talking with you today.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Oh my goodness. Well, let's take it back to the beginning. I am so intrigued to hear more about your story and where it all started. So take me back.

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Yeah, it all started in Jordan in the Middle East. Uh, the story started when I was five years old, I was in my grandmother's kitchen and usually she's fun and she creates all kinds of fun activities for us, but that specific day, I remember she wasn't as fun, she was more serious and we were arranging flowers in a glass vase. She held the glass vase and she said, do you see this perfect glass vase? A girl is just like it if it gets cracked for any reason you can never fix it You can never glue it back and that's the one we throw in the trash Because nobody would want a broken glass so So that that is the image that I was born with and raised with early on in my life And since I was five, imagine telling a five year old this, that I have to be perfect. I have to follow. I have to obey. I cannot have my own identity. And that's what I lived with. But then when I was 19, I got engaged through a traditional family introduction and we got married and we moved to San Diego, California. At that time, I continued to be the vase. I thought, I thought the expectations and the limitations stayed with me, stayed in Jordan. But no, I laugh about it and I say, Say they were FedExed overnight from Jordan to San Diego, uh, because the expectations continued to stay the same and the limitations were so much bigger than before. Um, living in the U S was just a matter of geography. So that is where I start from with, with the mindset and the mentality. And now I find myself in a whole different country alone, away from the culture, the family, the friends. And now I'm trying to discover who I am all over again.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Okay. I've got to know, why did you think that all of those expectations would stay behind in Jordan?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Because I moved to a whole new country. I saw pictures and videos and movies, Hollywood movies of, um, of how people live in the U. S. and the freedom and opportunities. So since I was moving here, I thought that that was going, that I'm going to be part of this culture and I would be allowed to, to discover who I am for the first time ever.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Okay, so tell me then, what happened next?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

So this is now I laugh about it at that time. It wasn't funny. Um, I was, I was newly, um, like newly married and my husband was the most eligible bachelor in our community. Everybody wanted him to marry their daughters. It was actually hilarious what they would do. So they would introduce him. To different, um, young women. So he would be interested in them. So I felt very special that he chose me and I, I w I wanted to hear from him why he picked me. I was waiting for him to tell me that he picked me to be his wife because, um, like he fell in love with me at first sight or because of my beautiful eyes or things I heard in love songs or even Hollywood movies. But I asked, when I asked him, I said, why me? Why did you choose me? His response was immediate and he said because you're like dough a dough and I didn't understand initially what that meant. Like what's the meaning of being like a dough and And that the surprising thing to me now that I was not offended What, what he meant by that is he was looking for a young woman with no experience, no education, no identity, so he can shape me the way he wanted, that he can teach me to see the world the way he wants. And that's why he chose me. So, so that's how, that's, that's how, that, that was the dynamic of our relationship when you're talking about moving to the U S and the vase moving with us, even simple things I couldn't do. I could only talk to my mom 20 minutes a week on Saturday and he had to be next to me. I was not allowed to have friends. I was not allowed to leave our home without permission. All of these things being here in the U S and. I, I just, I was just totally stuck and I had, I was always worried about the vase and. Challenging this norm because that would mean that I would break the vase and I didn't want that

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

So then what happened?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

so The what happened was I went into deep depression And even though it's horrible when you think about it depression But it turned out to be the best thing ever because that's when I started to question the norm and when we're talking about Um, the glass ceiling shattering the glass ceiling and the sticky flow of floors and all of that, which I love the, the theme of your podcast, the only way we can shatter these things and get out of the sticky floors and, uh, the glass ceiling is to question the norm. And to me. When I started questioning these stories that I was told, whether it is the vase, whether it is the, the dough, whether all of these things, and it was so difficult to do that. But when I started questioning them, I started realizing they make no sense and they have no place in my life. I don't want to live like this. And even though I knew that if I challenged them, And I continue to question them. There would be consequences, but we get to a point in our lives where it's worth challenging these stories and it's worth, um, accepting the consequences, even though they, they could be very painful. And in my life, they're extremely very painful, even 23 years later. So that's what happened. If I did not go into depression, I would not have questioned anything. I would have just lived, uh, following the expectations, but I believe it was the best thing ever.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Well, I don't think that this whole expectation and idea of You know what you saw in the movies, right? My mind immediately went to this chasing Cinderella, and I grew up with that, too, thinking that I would find this prince charming who would fully financially support me, and it would just be like this wonderful, blissful thing, right? But I also didn't come all the way over from Jordan away from my family and friends and the culture and the life that we knew. So I can only imagine that that just compounded A feeling of loneliness or helplessness. Is that how you felt? Or what was going through your mind?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

I felt you're right. I did feel lonely. I did feel that I did not fit in because now I because my my mindset started be changing slightly. I did not fit in the overall picture that was expected of me to live.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

The dough

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Yeah, the dough and even as I was growing up. I was taught I heard the story that people said all the time. Which was that our destiny is written on our forehead. So the story of your life is already predetermined before you're even before you're even born and you cannot challenge it. You cannot question that you just need to live it. And that's what I believed. Which is, which now it makes no sense, but at that time I could not question the, the life that I was living. I could not change it because that was the life that was predetermined for me and written on my forehead. And when you're talking earlier, as part of the introduction that I discovered that I have a choice, a big part of the choice is the choice that I can change my destiny. I can change the story that I don't have to live it and just accept it. And now when I'm dealing and working with people from all around the world, even though they may not have been told the vase story, they're living wanting to be perfect. That's why like you're talking about perfection. They're, they're afraid of making mistakes. They're worried of being judged and their aspiration for perfection. What is that? As if they are living Trying to keep their vase perfect as if they have an invisible vase and they're, they're, they're taught. You just accept it and you just live it. And that's why I believe your work and my work is so important because what we're doing is we're giving people permission to question the norm, to invest in themselves, to believe that they have the power to drive change. And, um, it's okay not to live the life that was expected of you. Yeah.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

and it's also okay. I'll say, and hopefully this will segue into the next part of your story, but it's okay to, choose again and to say, you know what? This isn't serving me anymore or know what? This isn't the right decision for me any more. And so with that being said, I know, I know pieces of your story, but talk to me about what happened next, because you're in this depression. You recognize you have a choice. What choice did you make and how did that impact you going forward?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Yeah, and i'm glad i'm glad you're asking this because when we discover we have a choice it's not overnight So it's not like we wake up and you're like, yes great. I have a choice. It does not work like that What happened for me is? One day I woke up, I was 24 and I woke up too depressed to even get out of bed. I had no energy to leave my bed and all I could do was just lay down and stare at the ceiling all day long. And I, I, I didn't have energy because every time I thought about the future, I would see total darkness. So I broke the rules and I called my mom in Jordan and, um, it was in the middle of the week, I just wanted my mom to tell me what to do and how to live my life. And thank goodness the phone just kept ringing. I was like dialing her, the phone kept ringing, ringing, ringing, and I couldn't get my mom at that time. It was, uh, year 2020. So there was no, um, uh, voicemail. In Jordan at that time, then I called my best friend and I couldn't get my best friend either. Then I called my uncle and I couldn't get my uncle. And I was on the floor crying, just wanting somebody to tell me how to live my life. Just tell me how to live my life. I needed something external. And thank goodness. No, but I couldn't get anybody because that was the day that I realized for the first time ever, maybe I need to listen to my own voice. Because it's always there. We just silence it. Maybe I need to, to dig deep and discover what do I want? What is the life that I want? And that was the first time ever, ever that I realized that maybe I have a choice. So it's not like I have a choice. Maybe I do. And just that idea that maybe I have a choice that created a little tiny crack in the vase. And that's when I started feeling more motivated to work on my education, to graduate, to start looking for a job. And so when you think about it being at the lowest point in our lives, where I could have been going lower and lower, but discovering that I don't need to listen to others. Even if they love me, they may not give me the right advice. I need to listen to myself and maybe I have a choice that motivated me to take the right actions. And with getting my education, my bachelor's getting, um, having a job, even though it was minimum wage initially, but starting to, to develop my confidence and my experience, I got a better job after a few years. And then I realized that I don't fit in that job. At all and that's when I packed and I escaped From my entire community my entire world and that was unheard of Nobody before me ever did something like this just left everything behind No,

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

no. And I mean, that's hard as it is if you are born and raised in a, in a traditional American family, right? Because this whole concept of divorce is still, still a bit taboo, even though like 50 percent of the world gets divorced. Right. But you were truly escaping. You weren't just leaving, you were escaping. And so when you started accumulating these cracks in your vase, and I love this analogy because I can just see the vase and have you heard of the Kintsugi bowl?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

what is that?

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Girl, you're going to love it. So the Kintsugi bowl is this

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Oh, yeah, the japanese. Yes. Yeah

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Japan, how they mend the cracks with gold. And so that's how I'm envisioning your vase. But again, as you said, it takes a lot of time to get to those places. Once you escaped, then what did you do? I mean, where did you go? How did you get your bearings? How did you stay grounded?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

oh my goodness. There's no grounded in that It's a total mess. So what I did is, uh before I escaped I rented a small tiny apartment In a very unsafe area because that's all I could afford. It's a low income neighborhood And, um, so when I left, I already had an apartment with no furniture because I could not afford to buy furniture, but I had a space to go to. And so I, I left everything behind, took my clothes and basic stuff. And I left and. My, my entire community in Jordan disowned me. They considered that because that's what my grandmother warned me about, right? That's a crack. And then I am not going to be wanted and I'm going to be thrown in the trash. So they disowned me, but that's not the worst part. The worst part is that my father. Decided to have me killed. So, um, in my small community and it's a Catholic community in Jordan, if a woman does anything that the father, the uncle, the brother disagree with, they kill her and they call it honor killing. And it's still happening. Um, and many times they don't even report it and they believe that they're bringing honor back to the family. So to me, it's been 23 years that I'm dealing with death threats. The only reason I'm alive right now talking to you, and hopefully it stays this way is that my father is in Jordan. He doesn't know how to speak English and he couldn't figure out how to navigate. But the interesting thing is the like women or anybody that is going through abusive experiences, just the threat itself is horrifying. So even though my father didn't get to me. But I'm always so terrified, um, watching my surroundings because again, like constant threat that make us live in fear. And to some people that is enough, making us live in fear. So that, that is where I'm talking about, like being at the lowest point, being in my late twenties. Lonely, barely making money alone. And also having my entire community communicate to me that I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy enough. And just like throwing me in a way in the, in the trash by disowning me.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm envisioning you in your apartment by yourself with no furniture. And I'm wondering, how do you begin to climb out of that? Right. And, and I know what you talk about is unstoppable courage and really shattering all of those limitations so that you can thrive. So I know we have an answer in here. I just got to know, how do you start when you're in that low place?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

It's difficult because when we're talking about starting, what would we start? What would I start financially? I wasn't doing well Physically, I was afraid to be hurt Emotionally, I was in deep depression and having low confidence So the the first thing that I did was allow myself to grief And that's the thing many times we're just moving forward. I just allowed myself to grieve I was crying I was not doing okay emotionally, but I allowed myself to feel all of these horrible emotions And now when I look back I I don't even feel I did enough. I should have given myself even more time to grieve But that is the first one. The other thing that I did is I, um, I enrolled in my master's degree because I believe in an Arabic phrase in Arabic. It is and that means knowledge is light and ignorance is darkness. And I felt that I needed to get out of the ignorance. I needed to get out of the darkness. And the only way I can do that is with knowledge, with light, bringing light into my life and connecting with people. That are my age that are interested to learn and to grow and all of that. So I enrolled in a master's in business program and I believe it was the best investment ever. So even though I was working full time, going to school at night, studying on the weekends, I, I was very busy. And of course continuing to deal with all the emotional things related to the family And then one of my professors his name is dr Starling he reached out to me and encouraged me to run to be the president of the student organization And I never saw myself as a leader before I always saw myself as a follower and for the first time ever This man who is my professor saw something in me that I did not realize. So I thanked him and I said, I don't know how to be a leader. And I just kept trying to avoid him, but he kept, every time he saw me, he would encourage, encourage me. Finally, I accepted to run and. The whole journey of leadership discovery just started for me. So to answer your question is give yourself time to grieve. Think about, um, what, what knowledge you need to bring into your light. What is the awareness? What is the light you need to bring into your life? In my situation, it was education, but maybe in your situation, it could be giving yourself time. Um, meditating, journaling. Taking a course, whatever it is, bring light into your life. And the third one is be very selective of who you're surrounding yourself with. In my situation, I was fortunate that this professor just showed up and he was in my life and he encouraged me and saw my potential. But when we're going through these difficult times, it is more important than ever. To avoid anybody who's putting us down, anybody who is making us feel that we're not good enough, that we're broken, and instead look for people and open ourselves to accepting help. Um, look for people who will help us to rise because it is time for us to rise.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

I am a firm believer that the universe puts exactly who we need in our path exactly when we need it. And, you know, you have this Dr. Starling who all he did was pose a question to you. All he did was invite you to consider a leadership position. And that completely sent your life on a totally different path. Different trajectory, which I love, but I'm huge on these three steps that you've outlined because I also agree that when you are kind of becoming this new person, right, that number one, you have to shed some of the things that are no longer serving you, whether those are the limiting beliefs, the mindsets. Whether those are bad habits that maybe you have, like you have to get rid of those things. And sometimes you have to grieve that process of, of stepping away from who that woman once was.

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Yeah,

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

And then you have to then figure out who do you need to surround yourself? What kind of habits do you need to be doing to become this next version of you? And so what I'm really interested in hearing is you get this master's degree, you've unlocked this whole new version of you. What do you do with that?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Well, that's when life started. I got a job with IBM and I was, it's a, it was a leadership development program. They only select eight people, eight MBA graduates a year from all the US, which I was so shocked they even selected me. And, um, I got to live and travel around the world and I started to manage global teams. So the world just opened up for me at a, at a scale that I've never, ever imagined before. I never imagined living the life that I was living at that time, or I'm living right now. That is not the life I was raised to live. And, um, so I started to manage global teams and as I was working with people globally, I would hear them. Um, telling me about their fears and insecurities and how they want to be perfect. And me, as I mentioned to you earlier, as if they're living with this, with this vase, with the expectation and the cultural limitations that were stopping them from taking risks and believing in themselves. And. Um, and they end up missing out on opportunities. So that's why I decided that, wow, I have a bigger purpose. I want to do this full time. I want to help people discover their potential, but also help them shatter these limitations that are stopping them. So I quit my job and, uh, when you were talking earlier about choosing again. So initially I chose the corporate world and I, I contributed and I helped my team, but now it was time for me to choose me again. And it was, um, to start an entrepreneurship journey and it was difficult. So that was nine years and a half ago. And, um, It was scary. It was so scary, but it is the same thing surrounding ourselves with people to help us continuing to educate ourselves, uh, watching our fears and the voice in our head that keeps telling us we're not good enough. What if, what if I fail? What if I am, what if other people are better than me to observe all of this and continue to have shift in mindset? Because when we have a vision, when we have a purpose that is bigger than us, We just cannot stay limited being a dough. We cannot be limited with a vase. We cannot be limited with all of these things. We need to shatter them every single day and continue to grow. And yes, expect that there's going to be. Uh, limitations and fears and insecurities and failure and people that would stand in our way. We need to expect all of these things, but at the same time, there's something bigger than us that we're working towards. And we just take one step, one step at a time, one step at a time until we get there.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

And also like, remember all of these things that are happening to us, you know, the challenges, the snarky bosses, the, you know, crazy family members, all of those things, it's actually happening for us. Because you can't have the light without the dark. And we're going to go a little woo woo here, but like, you can't know joy without knowing pain. And we try so hard to avoid all of these challenges and these hardships. Right. But one day, one day, Dima, we are all given the gift of hindsight. And when we get that gift of hindsight, we can look back and we can recognize, okay, those were all happening for me to become. This version of who I am today. And I love that you said I was living. It was not the life that you were raised to live. And that is such a powerful statement. I mean, that is a book title in itself, because I think so many of us just take these societal expectations and these family pressures, and we just do what we're quote unquote supposed to do, you know, how we should be as a wife, as a mom, as a person, you know, the dough, as you said, but like you do have a choice and you can choose to not live the life that you were raised to live.

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Yes?

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

kudos to you because we've got people, you know, left and right in the U. S. who have that problem and not all of their dads are trying to have them killed, so I think if you can overcome that, we can overcome anything. But Deewa, if you had to go back to the Deema who was just getting that first crack in her base. What piece of advice would you give her today?

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Wow, wow. Um, what I would tell her that things will get very difficult. You're going to feel disappointed. You're going to feel rejected. You're going to feel alone. just know that things will get so much better beyond your imagination Take it one day at a time and don't let these disappointments stop you Because you have a bigger purpose than you've ever ever imagined and these painful moments and experiences Eventually will be worth it because they're going to make you the strong woman that you are going to be.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

I love that. There's no sugarcoating. It's very practical, real advice. It's not all rainbows and butterflies and sunshine on the other side of making a choice. You know, sometimes you gotta go through it

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

And that's why I'm glad you said that. And, uh, because many times when we have like motivational speakers or we're reading books, what do we tell people? Feel the fear, take action. That is, we're hurting people when we do that. It's not a matter of feel the fear and take action. Are, are these motivational speakers going to be there when this individual is going to take the action and deal with the consequences? That's what this is. No. So it's not a matter of just taking the action. It is a matter of realizing once you take it, things will fall apart, but at the same time, open yourself up to the people that show up in your life, open yourself up to receiving help, open yourself up to learning from these experiences, challenging yourself. So you can create a better life because you know why? Because you deserve it. So things will fall before things start going up.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

I love that. It's so true and I tell everybody like Keep doing those things that push you outside of your comfort zone because every time you do, the most amazing thing that happens is your comfort zone actually starts expanding. And it's like, if you want to talk about expansion and abundance, like that's the way to do it. Lean into the hard stuff. So Dima, tell me about your book though, because you've got an amazing book and I want everybody here to read it because number one, I know they're going to be so intrigued by your story here today, but talk to me about your book.

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

My book surprise surprise is called breaking vases So obviously it's the journey of shattering these limitations the stories and to shatter the hell out of a vase So that's the the the book it is my memoir It includes the entire story from me growing up with my with my grandmother and learning about All of these messages that I have, I was programmed with early on the story of the getting married, moving to the U. S. and the going into the low moments of the depression, starting to question the norm. Realizing I have a choice and then getting into leadership. So if you're looking for a motivational Um memoir to inspire you to shatter your limitations to question the norm and continue to dare to thrive That is that is my memoir.

erica-rooney_1_10-03-2024_120622:

Well, thank you so much Dima. And thank you for sharing your story with us today. I know that so many people are going to hear this and say, you know what? Like I can do these hard things too. I can show it for myself. I don't have to wear all of these expectations. You know, and I can, can be me. So thank you for your raw authenticity. It was really appreciated.

dima-ghawi--she-her-_1_10-03-2024_110632:

Thank you. Well, I appreciate You sharing that and I want everybody to know that you deserve the life you want to create keep breaking vases

demon story is a Testament y'all to the power of courage of choice and of resilience. From feeling trapped in the cultural and familial expectations to embracing her voice and purpose. She reminds us every day that we don't have to live this life that we were told we had to live. Right. We can break free. We can shatter the limitations that confine us, and we can step into the infinite possibilities that are waiting just on the other side. So don't forget, check out her book, breaking vases for even more inspiration. And thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for tuning into the glass SeaLand sticky floor podcast. If this episode lit a fire under you, please go ahead and drop it. A five star review. It's how we get the message into the hands of the women who need to hear it most. And then don't stop here. Y'all find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, tick talk. For your daily dose of inspiration, lot of free resources and all the tools you need to keep smashing those ceilings until next time, stop putting a limitation over your own self and start smashing through them.

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