Sensitivity: Your New Career Superpower with Melody Wilding

What if the very traits you’ve been told make you "too emotional" for the C-suite are actually the high-level brain functions required for elite leadership?

In this episode of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, Erica Rooney sits down with Melody Wilding, executive coach and author of Trust Yourself and Managing Up. Melody introduces the concept of the "Sensitive Striver"—high achievers who possess a more finely tuned nervous system. She argues that empathy and deep processing aren't weaknesses to be "toughed out," but biological advantages that, when managed with the right systems, lead to unparalleled strategic success.

Join them as they discuss how to break the cycle of overthinking, the science of the "empathy neuron," and how to stop being the "single point of failure" by teaching people exactly how to treat you.

Inside the Episode:

• The Biology of Sensitivity: Melody explains the MRI research behind high sensitivity, revealing increased activity in brain regions related to decision-making and the "mirror neurons" that allow us to process emotions more deeply.
• Deep Thinking vs. Overthinking: Learn the vital distinction between productive problem-solving and the "paralysis by analysis" that stems from trying to optimize for too many masters at once.
• The "Frustrated Crier" Reframe: A tactical guide for women who tear up at work. Learn how to shift from a reaction of shame and apology to a position of strength by crediting your emotions to high standards and dedication.
• The "Honor Roll Hangover": Why the "good girl" mentality—saying yes to everything and working harder to be noticed—actually makes you unpromotable in the eyes of senior leadership.
• Managing Up Strategically: Why influencing your boss isn't about "making them happy," but about reclaiming your own agency and autonomy so you can lead your career from the driver's seat.
• The High-Low-Hero Ritual: A simple end-of-day shutdown process to close the "mental tabs" in your brain and prevent work stress from leaking into your home life.
• Setting the Precedent: Melody’s "best advice" on why you must stop being the first to volunteer and instead start teaching people how to treat you by valuing your own time first.

🔗 Resources:

• Get Melody’s free guide: Five Steps to Speak Like a Senior Leader.
• Buy the books: Trust Yourself and Managing Up.
• Connect with Erica Rooney on LinkedIn.

BUY THE BOOK — Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors: https://amzn.to/3YDS10f

Connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericarooney/

Be a Book Launch Insider!!!: https://ericaandersonrooney.myflodesk.com/booklaunchinsider

My FREE 5x5 Starter Kit for LinkedIn: https://ericaandersonrooney.myflodesk.com/5x5

FREE WEEKLY SUCCESS PLANNER: https://view.flodesk.com/pages/6308e515c861f3e7c8c814f3

Join our Facebook Group!: https://urlgeni.us/facebook/fromNOWtoNEXTtribe

Find me on Instagram: https://urlgeni.us/instagram/EricaAndersonRooney

Check out our PINS on Pinterest: https://urlgeni.us/pinterest/fromNOWtoNEXT

And YES — I’m on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@ericaandersonrooney

Transcript

Erica: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floor podcast. The podcast where we get real about the challenges that women face in work, life and leadership. I'm your host, Erica Rooney, HR executive, keynote speaker and executive coach, and I'm on a mission to get more women into positions of power and keep them there, y'all.

Erica: This is the space where we call out the paradoxes, being told to lean in, but not too far. To speak up, but not too loudly. Be ambitious, but not too ambitious. Does that sound familiar? Yeah. We're over all that here. We break down the sticky floors that keep us stuck from imposter syndrome and perfectionism to burnout and fear, and give you a real strategies to shatter those glass ceilings once and for all.

Erica: So if you're ready to rewrite the rules, own your power, and take your career and life to the next level, you're in the right place. Now today's guest, I'm super excited about y'all, but she is redefining what it means to be sensitive in a corporate world that y'all, it [00:01:00] often mistakes, empathy for weakness.

Erica: And she is here to help us turn this deep thinking in the high emotions that we have into a competitive advantage. And what is so refreshing is that she's not suggesting that we just like toughen up, that we just deal with it and figure it out, right? She's actually providing the psychological framework to own our sensitivity.

Erica: And to lead with it, melody Wildling is an executive coach, a human behavior expert, and the author of two hit books. The first one is called Trust Yourself. Stop overthinking and channel your emotions for success at work. And the second book is called Managing Up. Now she has coached hundreds of sensitive strivers, these high achievers who are also highly sensitive people.

Erica: And I don't know about y'all, but I feel like that is Me Too a T. And this is done at organizations like Google, Amazon, and JP Morgan. So y'all know she knows her stuff. But her mission is to help you stop the cycle of [00:02:00] overthinking and start trusting your gut so you can reach your full potential without the crushing weight of self doubt.

Erica: This woman, she knows the truth, that your sensitivity is your superpower, but only if you have the systems to manage it. Melody, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?

Melody: Hey, good. I am so excited to be here with you. It's gonna be a great conversation.

Erica: Oh my God. Girl, we were laughing y'all. She's in New Jersey. I'm in North Carolina. It's cold, it's snowing. The only difference is Melody might have a bear just show up in her back door or something like that, and I thought, please let that happen y'all, because it would be the perfect metaphor for, I don't know what yet, but I am like crossing my fingers that we get a bear siding today.

Erica: So. All right, melody, I wanna kick it off with this because you have built your career around this idea of a sensitive striver, and I'd never heard that term before. So I would love for you to kind of explain what that [00:03:00] sensitive striver is and then what inspired you to kind of bridge this gap that, that we're seeing where we have these sensitive drivers, but what's happening with them?

Erica: What do we do with them?

Melody: Yeah, well, the idea really came about because, uh, I came across years, years, and years ago, a book by Dr. Elaine Aaron called The Highly Sensitive Person, and many people may have read this book. It was, it was huge at the time when it came out, and her and her colleagues have done decades of research on. The trait of high sensitivity, and why I say trait is because that's what it is. Just like you could be more introverted, more extroverted, you can be more or less sensitive. We all exist on the spectrum, and sensitivity just refers to the fact that some of us have a more exaggerated nervous system response to what's happening within and around us. What they have determined through [00:04:00] MRI studies and. All different research over the last three, four decades is that people who rate higher on scales of sensitivity have more activity in certain brain regions.

Erica: Hmm.

Melody: Things related to decision making and attention, and also emotional processing. highly sensitive people have more active mirror neurons.

Melody: That's the empathy neuron. So we literally can take on other people's emotions. We perceive them more deeply. We may be able to understand what they're going through and I was. So attracted to talking about this is because when I began coaching almost 15 years ago now, I would have people come to me who were, you know, managing directors at banks and VPs at large CPG companies, and they would say, I don't think I can hack it at the next level because I think I'm too sensitive for that. I think [00:05:00] I'm too sensitive for the politics and the pressure that comes along with it. I don't, I don't think I can handle it because of how much I absorb everything that's happening around me, and to me that was such a travesty because what, do we need more than good people in seats of power?

Melody: People who are empathetic and who do consider other people's needs.

Erica: Right.

Melody: The idea of being a sensitive striver came about because when I was working with clients, what I saw was that they were not just. More sensitive. They were also, to your point, your introduction, extremely ambitious and high achieving. And when you put those two things together, it can be such an incredible accelerator for your career and your success. But most of us were not given the handbook. To manage ourselves with those qualities. So if we're not careful, they can become unbalanced, right? They can turn into overthinking, or we're so [00:06:00] self-aware that we become self-conscious. We are so attuned to other people's, uh, emotions and needs that we over-index on consensus seeking, and we are not as decisive as we need to be.

Melody: So any strength taken to an extreme can become a hindrance, and that's why we're here. That's what we're gonna unpack more today.

Erica: No, I love that. And I mean, overthinking is what just. Screams at me with like a big red blow horn or something. And I hear so many women, and I know myself, like if I get stuck on something, I will spiral on that one thought. And it will not just derail me from a time standpoint, but it will mentally drain me.

Erica: It will exhaust me. And I mean, again, my conscious mind knows this. It's a waste of my precious time and resources that I'm sitting there spiraling. But why do you think it is that? These highly, you know, sensitive or emotional people do tend to spend so much time overthinking. And what do they gotta do to just break out of that cycle?

Melody: [00:07:00] Yeah, part. Again, part of it is nature. Part of it is nurture. The nature part of it is because we're more sensitive, we're more perceptive, we're taking in more information, and so. High sensitivity exists because back in prehistoric days, it was helpful to have someone who was a bit slower and more considerate when making decisions, who didn't just rush out of the cave into whatever situation was there. Those people tended to survive and keep other people safe. so now that translates to, we may be noticing people's body language shift or wait, I noticed that one, uh, that the COO didn't respond to that email as fast as they normally do. What does that mean? So we're picking up on all these bits of information and these signals. than the average person who may just be glossing over them. And so we can get into these cycles of overthinking because we can see various angles, or we can put [00:08:00] ourselves in other people's shoes and think about what is our biggest customer gonna think about this? Maybe we should take into account this consideration and it slows us down. The big thing I will say is there is a difference between deep thinking, which can be our strength and overthinking, which is when we've gone too far. Deep thinking is when we are productively problem solving. Overthinking is when we keep just rehashing the same concerns over and over again and usually. comes with that negative self-talk. It comes with the, the sheen over it of what is everybody gonna think. I don't wanna be make people angry. Maybe we shouldn't do this 'cause it's a bad idea. Whereas deep thinking is, it is more grounded. It's more that voice of intuition that says, let me take this slower because I want to make the right decision. You, you asked a question about how do we get there though? [00:09:00] One of my favorite shortcuts and something I have to do very often because we teach what we most need to learn. So I am a sensitive driver myself. I always have to think about what is my key decision criteria instead of trying to optimize for everything, keeping people happy, keeping costs down, moving, moving fast, We have to pick. What is the one thing above all else that I'm trying to optimize for with this decision? If I get the other nice to haves, wonderful. But we're often trying to serve too many masters and, optimize for too many things, which leaves us in a, in that paralysis.

Erica: I am just TA taking notes right here. 'cause I was like, dang, that's really true. And I was running through my list, you know, trying to multitask of course, and be as productive as possible. And I'm thinking, no, I'm gonna find a crack here, right? And I was like, no. Everything I do, I'm thinking about how it's serving multiple purposes and all of those things.

Erica: But [00:10:00] I've got a question about the highly sensitive person. Are we talking about the people who like cry at the drop of a hat at work? 'cause that might also be me if I'm really frustrated.

Melody: More intense emotionality. It can come with being a highly sensitive

Erica: Hmm.

Melody: They don't always go hand in hand. And my argument is, if you are a balanced, sensitive striver, you are not getting into those emotionally reactive states. You're able to have emotional clarity around a situation, but you are able to emotionally regulate, right?

Melody: Unbalanced emotion regulation, like you were saying, might be. Crying at the drop of a hat, especially with the women I work with. They'll often say, when I get feedback or I'm frustrated in a meeting, right? That's when the emotions come out. Pro tip for dealing with that is do not, not respond to it with shame. That's what most women do

Erica: Mm,

Melody: it [00:11:00] takes us by surprise where we just feel swept up in this

Erica: well, we don't wanna do it.

Melody: Exactly. You don't, it's not you at your best. Right? And then so we get into, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I can't believe, like, just I need a minute. It's we react that way people are responding to that.

Melody: They're picking up on our cues. We teach people how to treat us. So if we are responding with shame, we are signaling to the other person, this is a shameful reaction. You should be judging me for this. But if instead. Know thyself. You have to know that if, if I'm sitting in my performance review, I may get some feedback.

Melody: I don't necessarily want to hear. And when that happens, when that you feel that emotional reaction taking over, you just take a deep breath like I just did. And you say it. It's surprising to hear this and. My, the reaction I'm having right now, even if you do start to tear up, [00:12:00] it's because I care. It's because we have worked so hard at this and we wanted to do a great job, and it's disappointing that we didn't hit that mark. So the key there is instead of responding with apology and shame, you switch it to crediting your reaction to care, concern, commitment, dedication. has been a lot of research to show that, especially for women, when you just make that slight shift, it, it changes other people's perception of us. I wish we didn't have to do this, but it's an an unfortunate reality of what we, what we deal with today.

Erica: Yeah, I would say I realized that I am a frustrated crier and I went further. 'cause I was like, I need to understand it's 'cause it's not just a frustration like, oh, something didn't go my way. But when I cry, it is from a place of you are not seeing me, you are not listening, you are not understanding. It's always something in those realms.

Erica: And I will say I have learned, [00:13:00] and it kind of aligns with what you're saying, but I wasn't able to put those pieces together. But I have learned to, to tell people when that happens for me, that. I cry because I care. And that's exactly what you said. I was like, yes, but I like, I will let the tears fall now.

Erica: And I'm like, I cry because I care. And so it's gonna be hard for me to get it out, but it's important that I do. And then I just lay it out there and that's worked for me. So I love this. Like take your power back by owning it too, right? Like you're allowed to be ecstatic at work. You're oftentimes, men definitely are allowed to be pissed at work.

Erica: Like there's so many emotions that you're allowed to be at work model that you can be frustrated and that expresses itself in tears. It's okay.

Melody: And, and to your point, you knowing that about yourself, you can even set that precedent with your team. Hey, if something catches me off guard, there's a chance. There's a chance. You may see tears know when that happens. It is [00:14:00] not me crumbling. It is not me being weak. It is a signal I know for myself. It's a signal that I need to articulate, like I. I need to be heard in that moment. So I may ask to slow the conversation down, or I may try to reiterate my perspective on that and just knowing that about yourself, getting ahead of it.

Erica: Mm.

Melody: I think so many of us try to hide

Erica: Yeah.

Melody: but when you can translate it into, this is how I work best. I just went through this exercise with my team and I told them. If you bring me a decision, I need runway for it. So don't spring things on me. I need time to sit with a decision, turn it over in my head. So if there's a big call you need me to make, bring it to me two weeks in advance

Erica: Hmm.

Melody: have some time. To sit with it, and that's because I know myself, I need a little bit of space to overthink it then arrive at the solution I want, make one [00:15:00] decision, and then possibly pressure test that decision, maybe change it again, I know all of this about myself, so

Erica: Yeah, the process.

Melody: exactly.

Melody: I've engineered it into my process and how I communicate with the people around me.

Erica: Yeah. Okay. I love this because I really think that how the leaders show up really influences like the vibe of the team, the culture of the team, and I wanted to ask you what kind of habit, habit, habits, sensitive leaders could really put into place so that they can make sure that their high standards are still meeting, they're still being, you know, set and.

Erica: Exceeded, you know, without having a culture of perfectionism. And you know, you mentioned setting the expectations, right? This is who I am, this is what I want. I think that's an amazing step one, but do you have any other like habits that people who are highly sensitive could adopt or put into, you know, their management toolkit?

Melody: Yes, yes. [00:16:00] When we talk about being a sensitive striver, there's six key qualities that make this up. We've talked about two of them already. The first is sensory sensitivity, so having that more. That larger nervous system, faster nervous system, reaction to situations. Thoughtfulness again can be a strength or a hindrance. The next one, R is responsibility. So this is, we are dedicated sometimes to a fault where the people I work with are incredibly loyal. Sometimes they will not leave roles for much longer than they should because they don't wanna leave the team

Erica: Mm.

Melody: They are the first one to volunteer, to say yes, to step in.

Melody: Even if something is way below their pay grade, which can lead again in the unbalanced form can lead to this. Cycle of them over functioning and under other people under functioning because you are always stepping in to [00:17:00] rescue to save other people that they don't have to step up. They may not consciously be aware of that, but you know, if Erica's gonna take care of it, then I don't, I don't need to build a system around this

Erica: Right.

Melody: one.

Melody: Very, very, very simple thing that my clients are like, whoa, this just, I didn't even know I could do that. Is. Is stop taking all the to-dos for yourself. I mean by this is often, especially the women who listen to this show, I'm willing to bet that often people will come to you and say, uh, hey, I would love your help with X, Y, Z, and then you take it on your to-do list of, oh, I can't get to that right now.

Melody: So I'll follow up with you in a few weeks. No, no, no, no. You are going to put the ball back in the other person's court. If they want something for you, then you say, this is not something I can get to till the end of February. Can you circle back at that point instead of you now taking it on as your [00:18:00] obligation.

Melody: Something for you to track, for you to follow up with them on. And this happens in big and small ways. every single day. So I'll pause there 'cause I'm sure you have had some

Erica: No, I, that last one is gold to me. And it's one of those things where it's like, okay, I know that and I need to be doing way more of it because I'm not, and I'm even talking about like, I have made it. My prerogative to send out the first carpool email every fricking week, every fricking week, right? There are like two other moms involved in this carpool.

Erica: Somebody could do it, but it's me every single time. And so just the little tiny ways that maybe you can start to not lee your energy out everywhere you're going and like, I love that. So remembering to truly delegate, like delegate it, get it off the list.

Melody: Yeah, and even if there is a meeting you. Consistently run. Maybe you start rotating it among the members of your team, [00:19:00] right? It's just us being the single point of failure. It's not good for us because you build resentment,

Erica: Yeah.

Melody: that that is one of the surest signs that you need. A boundary is that feeling of resentment

Erica: Mm.

Melody: let a situation go on for too long, or you have taken on something too much that you don't feel you're being recognized for. That is a sign of boundary needs to be set.

Erica: Yes,

Melody: you feel resentful that, uh, you're always the one leading this meeting or sending the carpool invitation, right, then it's, Hey, you know what, why don't we rotate this and starting to shift some of that responsibility to other people instead of taking it on yourself.

Erica: Now. Good news guys. It's actually a very strategic move on my part to be the one to send the carpool email first, 'cause it means I get first dib. So Katie and Allie, just block your ears out, but, all right, melody, one thing I wanted to pick your brain about is this. Idea of shutting it off of leave your bags at the [00:20:00] door.

Erica: Right. And this goes both ways. Like we've always been expected as employees to leave our emotional, personal baggage at the door and then go in, be a perfect human. But then also like we are impacted at work emotionally. We pour our hearts into projects. You know, we don't get the promotion we wanted. Our best friend at work gets laid off.

Erica: You know, things happen. And then we're supposed to just like. Be able to switch that off and not let it impact us as we go home and carry that into the night. Like, I don't know about you, but I struggle to leave my bags at any of the doors. So what are some of these, I don't know if it's boundaries or advice that you have where people who are highly sensitive, who struggle to compartmentalize a little bit.

Erica: Like how can they kind of put those safety guardrails in?

Melody: Yeah. I love this question because it goes back to overthinking what we were talking about, right? It's like you have many tabs open in your brain, and if we don't close those tabs, your mind is just constantly [00:21:00] cycling through them. Like, well, we didn't solve this. Well, we didn't solve that, but, and. That's, that's exactly what happens because your mind, it's a question answering and a meaning making machine. So if you don't have a way to close those loops, you're just gonna keep turning them over and over and over. And so for a lot of my clients, it usually looks like putting in some sort of an end of day ritual that that's a very easy place to start, where you have some sort of shut down process that signals to your mind and your body. wrapping it up for today, and sometimes you have those big things, like you were saying, the friend who gets laid off that just pierce through all of

Erica: Yeah.

Melody: But many times it's the, oh, I forgot to send that person that email, or, oh, I wanted to change the wording on the deck in that way. And so for a lot of people, usually it's that brain dump at the end of the day. And I like tying that together with some sort of a reflection

Erica: Um.

Melody: So a lot of my clients do what [00:22:00] I call high low hero. What was your high point of the day? Really reflecting on a moment of strength for yourself because we also don't give ourselves enough credit, and that's where a lot of self-doubt comes from is never enough.

Melody: I'm never enough. And so that that starts to switch our lens in that way. But a low is what was the struggle for, for me today? What was a low point and is there anything I need to let go around that? Is there conversation I need to have or a process to put in place? So it's not being yourself up, it's meant to be more constructive. then the last is, who is a hero to you today? Can you recognize somebody else who helped you or something great you saw on social media that was valuable for you just to get out of your own head? Having that type of closure ritual can be very helpful, uh, because in this hybrid time that we're in, we don't have [00:23:00] that transition.

Melody: We don't have that shutdown, so we have to create that for ourself. And if something comes up while you're, you know, watching TV or eating dinner with your family, give your mind somewhere to put it. Have a scratch pad or have just a note stock that you're capturing it and you're gonna revisit it tomorrow.

Erica: No,

Melody: to just put your mind at ease that is, okay, we got this. You don't need to, you don't need to turn this over now. Yeah.

Erica: I will say I've tried. To give up sticky notes. I've really tried. I feel like it's repetitive, it's messy, but it really does help me with that brain dump and from clearing it out of the me mental clutter that's in my head, just to put it on a list and sometimes it stays on that list for a good three, four months, y'all like, I'm not saying I get it all done all the time, but it's not in my head.

Erica: Um, and I was gonna tell you too, I'm an an advisor for a women's group called We See, and it's Women's Executive [00:24:00] Circle, and we do something very similar every time we get together from your high, low hero. Ours is the rose, the bud, and the thorn. And so the rose is what's great. The thorn is obviously what's not great, but the bud is something that you're nurturing.

Erica: Whether that is. A relationship or you know, a job or just an idea or something you might need help with. What do you need tending to? We kind of flex it up, but I love that kinda setup for it. I think it's a really great way to position it out there. But Melody, I gotta ask you about your books, right?

Erica: Which one's your favorite?

Melody: Oh, that's like

Erica: I'm making you choose between your kids.

Melody: Yeah, it's like picking your favorite child. It's, it's interesting. So Trust Yourself was my first book. It came out, uh, I finished writing it right at the beginning of the pandemic, and it came out in the thick of the pandemic in 2021. that was really, that was the book I [00:25:00] needed to write. For myself at that time. and my second book Managing Up came out, uh, in early 2025. And it's interesting because both of the books, I think, reflect my own personal journey where I, I have this concept in my business that I call your professional power position, and one half of it is mastering your own psychology, which is really what trust yourself is about, is how do you manage and lead. Yourself with your insecurities and all your quirks and idiosyncrasies. And the other side of that power position is being able to understand and influence the psychology of others. That where those two things come together is where you really have the most leverage in your career and really where success is found.

Melody: And so trust yourself was the first part of that equation. Managing up was the second half of that equation. And yeah, I think managing up also represented my [00:26:00] own evolution, becoming more assertive and more confident, and, uh, a bit more bold, which has really been fun kind of exploring those different parts of myself too, through the different books.

Erica: Yeah. Oh, I thought it was so interesting. I was talking with my fantastic podcast producer, Kaylee, beforehand when we were talking about the show flow and she was telling me about your books and she was like, I've heard of this first one. And I was like, no way. I was like, I've heard of the second one. So I love it 'cause it's like all come in full circle.

Erica: But what I loved about managing up and I actually. I have it somewhere. I know I do. 'cause I bought it. I don't know when, but I bought it and I read it. But you really talk about how do you, how do you talk to the people in charge to get what you need, get what you want, which is obviously a huge sticky floor for a lot of women.

Erica: I imagine it's even worse for us who are highly sensitive people because that might involve hearing something we don't wanna hear and maybe [00:27:00] that. Instills the fear that we don't even want to ask or make a move. What is the biggest mistake do you think that women can make when they're trying to influence their leaders and how can they fix it?

Melody: Yeah. Uh, I think this goes hand in hand with why I wrote the book and the trajectory between the two managing Up came about directly as a response to trust yourself. Because after that book came out, I would hear from tons of sensitive strivers in my audience who are primarily women who would say.

Melody: Okay. I believe in myself more. I know I have value

Erica: Oh, like now what?

Melody: Yeah, the I've turned down the volume on the imposter syndrome. It's better. It still comes up from time to time, but all of it flies out of the window when I have to deal with someone who has higher authority than me, specifically executives or people who are more domineering or have just a very dominant style. What do I do then? How do I hold my [00:28:00] own and how do I stop? The, the people pleasing was one of the biggest drivers of that, of, you know, my executive says jump, and I'm, I ask how high? Because I, I've just been raised to be deferential. How do I feel like I can hold my own? That's really what managing up is about, and the biggest mistake I see people make is assume that managing up or influencing others, especially those with more power than you, that it's about making them happy, making them look good, when really this is not about them at all. This is something you need to do for yourself to have the clarity. The freedom, the autonomy to do your best work, to protect your time, to feel like you can be the one in the driver's seat of your career instead of just jerked around by the whims and the personalities around you. I say that because we have to start with that [00:29:00] mindset shift. If you are always thinking, Ugh, yeah, I gotta manage up and it. You think it's something that is just gonna make you a yes person or a suck up, a brown noser, then you're never going to want to do it. And so that shift of this is about me reclaiming the agency and, uh, really being the one who is directing my career instead of the passenger of it. that's where all of it has to start.

Erica: Yeah. I would say too, as a people officer, like I have never in my career heard well. I've seen people who maybe think this way, that like, you are here to make me look good. And, but like that would never cross my mind as a people leader, right? Because it's like, no, I need you to tell me what I'm not seeing.

Erica: I need you to tell me what I'm missing, where I'm wrong, what are my blind spots? And guess what? [00:30:00] Like the better you are at your job, the less I care about how you get it done and where you get it done. And anything else. You know what I mean? And like that's, I think a big key thing a lot of people don't understand too, is when they become just a yes person and they only ever do just what you say, you don't look at them as someone who can actually be a strategic thought partner with you.

Erica: You know, they don't, you don't ever view them as someone who could rise to your level if they're only ever gonna say yes.

Melody: And that hits on a huge reason I see so many women hit that mid-career ceiling is they think the equation is. Effort. I just need to do more, work harder, prove myself plus time. I just need to be here, build relationships, bide my time, quote unquote, my expertise, my smarts. That's. That's what gets me ahead

Erica: Yeah.

Melody: and I can't tell you how many times people have [00:31:00] come to me and said, I just got feedback in my performance review that I am not getting a promotion because leadership doesn't see me as as executive material or because I have been saying yes to everything.

Melody: They don't think I know how to prioritize. Or make trade-offs or have hard conversations. And so here we think this, you know, good girl, good student mentality and, and trust yourself. I call this the honor roll hangover. Like be the good girl. Get all the A pluses say yes. think that's what's going to get you ahead when you reach this point in your career where that's the exact thing working against you.

Melody: Because people don't see your judgment. They don't see that, uh, you can make those. Those tough calls and have hard conversations, so it's, it's a really rude awakening for a lot of people. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Erica: It is, but it's such an important one that I think. That I think it's overlooked a lot. And like I just saw in one of the executive [00:32:00] Facebook groups, I'm a part of where a woman poured her heart out in the post and she said, you know, I did all this extra work. I saw that the gap was there. I addressed the gap.

Erica: I took, I did all of the work extra and went over and beyond. And she was over, above and beyond, Lord. Tongue twister today. And, um, she goes, and then performance review came and I just gotta meets expectations and nobody said anything. And so I kind of had a conversation with her afterwards. I was happy to jump in.

Erica: And I said, you know, when they asked you to work on this? And she was like, well, they never asked me to work on it. I just figured I would do it and they would see it, and then I would get the promotion. And I was like, but they never asked you to do it. And she was like, no. And I was like, okay, step one.

Erica: Don't ever do work you're not asked to do, because now you don't even know if that's aligning with their goals and their priorities. I was like, but number two, do not be taking on all that extra work without these conversations to lay the groundwork because she just had this mentality that what you [00:33:00] just said, if I show up, if I do the work, if I work longer hours, it'll all pay off and I'll just be noticed.

Erica: And they're like, oh, cool. You had bandwidth and.

Melody: more. Right? You want something done, give

Erica: Yeah, give it to her. Oh my gosh. Such great advice. So quit being a yes woman. I hate to say it. Quit going above and beyond in certain instances like that, unless you are doing it with the strategic conversations in place. But last question, best question, melody.

Erica: I love to like transport back in time when you're like. The melody that is the highly sensitive person that maybe doesn't have it all figured out yet. Certainly maybe doesn't even identify as just that highly sensitive person. She just knows. Maybe she cries a lot. I don't know. What piece of advice would you give her, knowing everything you know now?

Melody: Yeah, I, I mentioned it earlier usually I say it during conversations because I need to remind myself all of the time that you teach people how to treat you.

Erica: Hmm.

Melody: I, I was [00:34:00] that person who you sent me an email. Two seconds later you got a response. And to your point, you're teaching people, you are always available. You are saying your time is not valuable, that you are not discerning about how you spend it. If you want something done, keep giving it to me, right? And you make yourself indispensable to the point where you make yourself unpromotable. and unappreciated for it. And I have done that so many times in my life and my career that I, I have to be very, very conscious about how, and what I like about teach people how to treat you is that ultimately it's within your control, right? It's my behavior towards myself. How I talk about, we were talking about this earlier, about how do you talk about your standards or your expectations or, uh, precedence about how you might behave or react

Erica: No.

Melody: Do you do that with confidence? Like, this is who I am, just very matter of factly, or do you do it with that shame? All of this adds up to [00:35:00] how people see you, how you feel about yourself, and that's the whole game.

Erica: Oh my gosh, the whole game. Well, melody, thank you so much for joining. Hey guys, if you're listening, melody is giving us a really cool resource. It's called Five Steps to Speak Like a Senior Leader, and y'all. We all need that, right? We all need to know how to best communicate with these people so that they hear the messages we are trying to send.

Erica: So the link for that will be in the show notes. Make sure that you snag it. Go check it out. Grab her two books too. Y'all managing up. And then Melody, you gotta remind me the second book. What's the whole title?

Melody: Trust yourself.

Erica: Trust yourself.

Melody: and channel your emotions for success at work. Yep.

Erica: bang, boom. I love it. So y'all, if today's conversation lit a fire under you, here's your next move.

Erica: Don't keep it to yourself. Share this episode with a friend, drop a review, and let's keep the conversation going. Remember that your potential is limitless and the only thing standing in your way are those sticky floors. [00:36:00] But guess what? You have the power to break through them. So go out there, take up some dang space and let's shatter some ceilings together.

Erica: And then Kaylee will come back and she will, um, stop.